T.S.O.L. has been around, in one incarnation or another, since 1978, a big cheese in the LA/California punk scene touring with the likes of THE DAMNED and THE DEAD KENNEDY’S. The group pioneered goth-punk, featuring white face-painted vocalist Jack Grisham singing dark lyrics over hard riffs, a feat some say inspired the likes of THE MISFITS. At one point, Grisham said he was even approached by Davey Havok of AFI, who readily admitted that he’d been ripping the TSOL frontman off for years. 30 years later, after numerous line-up changes and “break-ups,” the influential band is together again. I was fortunate enough to chat with Jack Grisham last week. He spoke to me on his cell phone outside of a casino in Vegas, his voice fading in and out amidst an assault of static and the brash traffic sounds emanating from the streets of Nevada’s gaming mecca. It may be the first Pastepunk interview to require a parental advisory, so kiddies ask your parents before reading on. The cliche “within every cynic lives a former idealist” reminds me of my interview with Mr. Grisham. He’s a crass, angry man with an affinity for F-bombs, but beneath his jaded, pissed-off exterior lies a person who cares deeply for people, and the punk scene he helped kick off.

Pastepunk:  What are you guys doing at a Casino?

Jack: Oh, we’re just fucking around.  We’re trying to eat for free.  You know, you go, and you get cheap buffets.  Like the 2 dollar buffets.

Pastepunk:  Where are you right now?

Jack:  Were at the total circus circus area, our motor home parked out front.  You know, that kind of crap.

Pastepunk:  You’re in Vegas?

Jack:  Yeah.  We’re in Vegas.

Pastepunk:  Are you guys doing a show there tonight or something?

Jack:  Yeah.  We just did Phoenix last night, and then we do Vegas, and then we do two shows at home back in L.A.

Pastepunk:  Cool.  how did the show last night go?

Jack:  It was fun man, they’re all fun.  You know, a lot of these songs we’ve been playing for 30 years.  It’s like, fuck.  But it’s fun.  The kids are nuts man.  They’re always going nuts.

Pastepunk:  How do you get yourself all pumped up if you’ve been playing the songs so long?  

Jack: I don’t.  That’s what’s funny.  I lay around, I sit around.  I don’t stretch out, don’t do any exercise, no nothing.  Somebody hit me up about it one time.  They said, ‘Don’t you fucking do something to get pumped up or whatever?’  It’s like, no, have you ever seen one of those lions lying in the bushes?  They don’t do shit.  They just lay in the bushes or under the tree, and then when something comes by they just hop on it and kill it.  That’s my same motive.  I just lay around, and then walk onstage and do what I gotta do.

Pastepunk: I’m sure kids being all pumped helps you get into it too…

Jack: Yeah, it’s fun man.  And the more they give, the more I’m willing to give.  A lot of times you’re just putting it out, putting it out, putting it out and nothing’s coming back.  And it’s just like, fuck.  It’s just draining man.  Luckily we don’t get that so much.  Most of the time we put it out, and they put it out, and then we put it out and it just builds and builds and builds.  That makes it really fun, man.

Pastepunk:  What is the tour you guys are doing?  How long are you guys going to be out?

Jack: We’ll it’s just a couple of weeks.  What we do is we don’t tour very often.  A lot of us are involved at home with our families.  We don’t like to leave everybody.  When I go away from home, people complain.  So we just go and we do short trips now.  We were getting a lot of letters from the Southwest and Texas, like ‘Hey how come you guys aren’t coming back?  Come on, where are you, where are you, where are you?’  So we’re like, ok, let’s just do two weeks.  They’re totally hitting us up, let’s go.  I think the next move we’re going to make is the East Coast.  There are a lot of people who have been hounding us about going there.

Pastepunk:  So you guys are still getting pretty good turnouts for your shows?

Jack:  Oh yeah.  It’s really good.  Especially after this many years, you know what I’m saying?  Thirty years of doing it.  It’s like it’s still really good.  Home’s the biggest.  When we play at home, we get a thousand or two thousand people.  Home’s always good.  Away from home it’s always fun.  Even on shit nights.

Pastepunk:  Home is in Southern California?

Jack:  Yes and no.  Our guitar player lives in Iowa.  Our bass player lives in Nevada.  I live in Huntington.  But basically we still say we’re from Southern California.

Pastepunk: What are you guys touring in?

Jack:  This guy who runs an Indian casino… we borrowed their motor home.  We borrowed the Indian casino’s motor home.  It’s this huge bus.  He asked us, ‘Hey, do you know how to drive that?’  I’m like, ‘Yeah, we do,’ right?  But I have no idea, I’ve never driven something like that before.  So it was a little sketchy and we did have one minor… well, we took down a sign.

Pastepunk: No you didn’t…

Jack:  Yeah, just like a little stop sign.  We came across the corner, and they turn different, you know what I mean?  They swing wide.  I didn’t swing wide enough.

Pastepunk: You took out a stop sign?

Jack:  Yeah, just kind of bent it over, a bit.

Pastepunk:  I don’t understand.  They just let you borrow it, for the hell of it?

Jack: We’ll, the guy knew our drummer.  So we kind of worked out this crazy deal, that it’s like…we couldn’t have rented a car for less than we got this.  You know what I mean?  It’s like some crazy deal that we worked out.  We just sleep in it, live in it.  You know, it’s great.  We couldn’t do it if gas still was what it was, but I mean now, gas is like nothing.  It’s really cheap, so we can afford to do it.

Pastepunk: I was reading online, back in 2003 you ran for governor…

Jack: I just did it basically to bitch about healthcare in California.  We don’t really take care of our own people.

Pastepunk:  Do you have future plans for work as a politician or was that just a random thing?

Jack:  Well, I’ve been married to underage women, I’ve taken a lot of drugs, been arrested for trespassing and impersonating an officer.  Resisting arrest.  It doesn’t make for really good political background.  And then they could just get on the internet and bring up a song that has me saying, ‘I want to fuck the dead.’  That’s not a great campaign tune.  You know what I’m saying?

Pastepunk: I do.

Jack: But who knows, man.

Pastepunk:  But, you’re interested in politics?

Jack: I’m interested in seeing people not be hurt.  I’m interested in that.  When it comes right down to it, I’m a socialist.  I think we have too much for too many to not have any, if that makes any sense.  We’re one of the wealthiest countries in the entire world.  We don’t take care of our own people.  It’s nothing to be proud of here.

Pastepunk: Do you ever talk to people at your shows that are just shit-broke and dealing with those kind of things?

Jack:  Yeah, constantly.  I mean, all the time.  I do a lot of work going into prisons, talking to people who work psych-services in prisons.  I see a lot of it first hand, man.  Also working with a lot of people with drug abuse, alcoholism, that kind of thing.  Seeing these families, seeing these people, seeing how our prison systems don’t work, all that.  It’s hard to watch it and not get involved.

Pastepunk: You going to prisons and stuff, is that you going to see people who know you from the band?  Or is it just random people you’re going to see?

Jack:  Well, I go in there and I give talks.  I haven’t taken any drugs or drank in like 20 years.  I haven’t gone to jail in that long, so I’m pretty involved in the recovery aspect.  A lot of it is just going and giving talks to people, into schools, prisons, hospitals, that kind of thing, and just giving talks about how to basically survive without getting loaded, which is really easy for people who don’t have a problem.  But for guys like me who have a problem, living not-loaded is really rough.  I mean, we have trouble keeping our hands to ourselves, showing up for jobs, taking care of our families.

Pastepunk:  So that’s how you’re giving back, helping people with what you’ve learned?

Jack:  Well, yeah.  I took a lot from a lot of people.  I hurt a lot of people, did a lot of really selfish, really fucked stuff to people.  And I have a lot of paying back to do.  This new record, the way we did this new record, giving back to the charities.  The guys in the band feel the same way.  It’s like, we gotta throw some back.

Pastepunk:  How much money from this new album is going to charity?

Jack: All of it.  The records free.  If you go to the download site, it’s a free download.  Underneath the download site it says here’s a list of our charities.  If you can, donate some to these people, because you got a free record.  So throw a buck or two their way.  So everything goes to them.

Pastepunk: Has that been successful?  Are you tracking the money that’s going to the charities?

Jack: Well, let me ask you this.  Let’s say one family, husband, wife, and a couple of kids.  They’ve got no where to sleep, they’re hurting, they don’t have a meal.  Let’s say even if we only gave 50 – 100 bucks.  It takes care of those people, it relieves their pain for one small amount of time.  So then how much is that if people all over were constantly doing stuff like that?  How much pain would we relieve?  That’s really the point.  So it doesn’t really matter how much.  A lot of people think, well I can’t really do anything, it’s not a big deal, I only have a dollar to give.  Given to the right charity, a dollar or two goes a long way.  Like The Midnight Mission.  I think twenty dollars feeds fifty guys.  You know, they’re buying the food in bulk, or at discount places, they’re doing whatever, but they really stretch the money.

Pastepunk: I read something online that really interested me.  You said, a while back, that to an ABC interview you wore a green suit.  They thought that you were going to be super punk rock dude, and it just really messed with their interpretation.  Was that something that the mainstream media was constantly doing, trying to put you in some kind of box?

Jack: Well, they always do.  They think, that’s what we like.  We want stuff classified.  Punk looks like this, republican looks like this.  You know, we want to do that, like it makes us comfortable to see these people and put them in their places like that.  We feel some sort of comfort, some sort of control.  Think republican man.  You think of a white, middle-age man.  You don’t think black rapper.  It fucks with people.  They want it in a box. So they’re trying to get me down for an interview.  They got punk rock guy who starts riot in L.A, so they bring the cameras down, and I show up in a nice suit.  I look like a junior businessman.  They’re looking at me like, ‘What the fuck? Where’s the sensationalism, where’s the swastikas, where’s the safety pins through this guys lip.’  It’s like no, I’m there with a suit and a tie saying, hey, we were behaving peacefully and they came in and started dragging people out.  We had twenty-five hundred people sitting on the floor.  We were doing the right thing.

Pastepunk: Did you enjoy breaking up those boxes like that?

Jack: Yeah.  I mean, fucking with the kids is even funner then fucking with other people.  I mean, look at what they’ve done to punk rock now, look at what they’ve done to music.  When I first started doing this, the scope of what you could do, and who was involved was unbelievably huge.  Let’s say you and I are at a party hanging out, we’re talking, we like each other.  Then all of a sudden, one of us says, ‘Hey man, we like each other, what do you say we make a band?’  Then we go grab the gear, and we hop up on wherever corner they got the shit set up, and we just start beating it out, and everybody’s stoked.  It’s just like fun, it’s just like letting go and not judging.  No one sits around and says, ‘Oh wait a minute, Jack and Matt are emo, screamo, death, punk,’ they didn’t say any of that.

Pastepunk: That’s what the scene felt like to you back then?

Jack: You know that band THE GO GO’S?  Ok, they played on the same bill as BLACK FLAG.  It was THE GO GO’S, BLACK FLAG, and RHINO 39 on the same bill.  Can you fucking imagine that?  Can you imagine if BRITNEY SPEARS was playing a show with, I don’t know who… PENNYWISE or something.  Whatever, I’m just throwing out… something.  BRITNEY SPEARS and THE UNSEEN, tonight. 

Pastepunk:  This is back in the early 80′s? 

Jack:  Yeah.  You would see WALL OF VOODOO with X, just crazy mixes of stuff.  The first show I ever played, I was in this band called VICIOUS CIRCLE.  This was like the first stage show, and the bill was VICIOUS CIRCLE, THE MIDDLE CLASS, and THE GERMS.  I mean, just great bills, and really fun, and open.  Nobody sat around too cool to fucking dig the band.

Pastepunk: I wonder why that doesn’t happen as much now.  It seems like there is not as much of a community aspect now, or something.

Jack: There’s no unity.  Fuck.  I don’t know these kids that go around and say, ‘Unity, unity.’  They’re not fucking unified.  The minute that somebody doesn’t think like they do or look like they do, like all of a sudden, ‘Well, now you’re not part of our unity circle.’   What the fuck?  How can somebody who stands for unity put somebody outside the unity circle?  It’s not all inclusive.  I don’t know man, it was just a lot different.  That’s the only thing that really bums me out now. 

Pastepunk: What do you think kids could do to get that back?

Jack: I dunno, come up with some sort of code of conduct?   I wouldn’t even know what to say.  Like as part of this community, this is the code of conduct we are going to try to live by.  I don’t see that happening. 

Pastepunk: I was watching some old videos of you guys, and I saw lot of influence in bands like AFI and MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE, especially when it comes to your style.  Do you think you get enough recognition for that?

Jack:  Yeah, but I don’t care about it.  Like Davey from AFI came up to me and said, ‘I’ve been ripping you off for years.’  All those guys, but it’s ok.  I mean, I was stealing from people.  ALICE COOPER and FRANK ZAPPA, you know?  We all grew up watching people and doing it.  But I don’t really care.  That’s not my bag.  I don’t need to be that, you know what I’m saying?  I’ve never looked at this as a career, or like, ‘Hey I’m this, and you’re not this.’  Like, all of a sudden i”m somebody, now?  I play in a punk rock band, man.  I would have this same attitude if I was playing in a disco band.  Some people think that music makes them cooler than other people, or better than other people.  Like all of a sudden… Yeah, you sold some records, big fucking deal.  My buddy digs ditches, you know what I’m saying?  Who gives a fuck?  To be honest with you, sometimes it sucks when I can’t afford to get insurance for my kids, and there are guys who are stealing straight from me.  They’re flying around in planes, and I’m worried about trying to get my kids medical attention.  So yeah, there are times like that when I get a little bitter and bummed out. 

Pastepunk: But as far as wanting recognition for yourself, it is not about that?

Jack: No.  I’d rather have money than recognition.  Your area code is 530.  Where is that, Oregon?

Pastepunk:  I’m in San Francisco, but I’m from Chico, which is a little bit up north. 

Jack: Oh yeah, I know where Chico is.  We played a great show in Chico one time where a guy broke his knee cap.  Like on the first song, he broke his knee cap.  His knee cap was on the side of his knee.  It was moved to the side, and he was in pain and screaming.  So the paramedics come right?  And he goes, ‘No man, I paid to see you guys, and I’ve been waiting to see you guys for years, I can’t leave, I can’t leave.’  And he’s on the stretcher with all the paramedics in there, right?  So he goes, ‘Man, please, will you play this one song,’ and we said, ‘Yeah, we’ll play it for you man.’  And so the paramedics let him sit there, in the stretcher. right at the side of the stage.  It was at the Brick Works in Chico.  He wouldn’t let them take him out until the song was finished.        

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