This interview is far too long and interesting to demand an explicative introduction. In life, there are good people, bad people, and a whole lot of schmucks that fit somewhere in between depending on what suits their best interest at any given moment. Ray Harkins belongs in the “good people” category. He’s a friend, an artist, and an inspiration to what Pastepunk is all about. If you need to figure out why that is – read every single lyric to TAKEN’s final opus, “Between The Two Unseens.” Ray is currently orchestrating a brand new band called MIKOTO, and you can stream their demo at mikotomusic.com. This interview was conducted by email in September of 2004.

Pastepunk: TAKEN posthumously released a final EP on Goodfellow Records. Often, both bands and labels are hesitant to put out releases that won’t be supported by tours – was there any resistance from Goodfellow in getting them to put the EP out, and do you have any reservations about not being able to promote it on the road?

RAY: None whatsoever. From the get go Chris Logan (CEO of Goodfellow Records) has been nothing but the most amazing man to us. He exposed us to the world in which we got to see most of it on tour. Since we had been working on these songs for quite some time we HAD to release them, even after we decided that the band was going to end. It only made sense that who we started with, we should end things with. Other labels were interested in releasing the last EP as a favor to the band but we decided after all that Goodfellow just made the most sense. I personally wish we could have hit the road to get these songs in peoples hands because I for one am so proud of this EP. Usually bands say, “Oh, this is our best material yet” and it sounds decidedly like everything else they have ever recorded. With this last EP I think we all went through some interesting times in our lives both on a personal level and through the band member changes and on tour. I think is shows and we were able to translate that into a cohesive EP which in my estimation summarizes Taken to the fullest extent. What I always though to be awesome was the people that had supported Taken, then grew apart from us, then came back full circle because of the new songs. You can’t get a higher compliment than, “I used to hate your band, now I think you guys are pretty awesome.”

Pastepunk: If I’m not mistaken, a key figure in TAKEN’s demise was the band’s former drummer leaving to join NAME TAKEN. As the band was able to overcome line-up obstacles in the past, why was this sort of the back-breaker? If I’m completely off-base, feel free to fill in the details.

RAY: That was the straw that broke the camel’s back as they say. Previous to that both of our guitarists quit the same day after practice so it was easily a culmination of those two that lead to the demise. We had overcome lineup changes in the past but those took such patience and perseverance that unfortunately was not present at this particular juncture. We had generally felt that after our first two original members had quit, if we lost another one we would call it a day. I will never forget how eerily calm I was the day that our guitarists quit. Immediately after my mind started jumping to who would do the best at filling in those positions. Granted it was going to be a difficult task but I could not see the band ending at that particular point with all of the amazing things on the horizon. We were about to secure a record deal with The Militia Group, we were ready to embark on the road for quite some time over in Europe, Japan and continued tours in the U.S as we were all poised to take this to the next level. Then slowly I felt like I was the only one with that drive anymore and it just trickled down from there. Once our drummer left, it sealed the deal for me as I realized that you can’t save a sinking ship. I am not bitter about things ending the way they did because things happen for a reason as clichéd as that sounds, it makes sense to me now. Granted yes, at the time it was very difficult to comprehend but through time you are able to gain clarity through many situations and this was one of them. Now I am able to look back and realize that we have in fact made an impact on peoples lives and yes we were not able to ever be one of those “cool bands” of the moment, but it makes me appreciate things so much more because we were able to keep things at a more grassroots level and not be thrust in the limelight. In the end, all I have is the memories and experiences that have shaped me into who I am today which is something I would not trade for anything.

Pastepunk: On the band’s first nationwide tour, TAKEN ended up playing only four shows – how on earth was this not demoralizing to the band’s spirit during those formative years? Lesser bands would have crumpled over issues about headlining – where did the resolve come from?

RAY: Granted we were kids then and did not have the amount of responsibility that we had later on in life, but it was one of those things we just had to do. I had booked a majority of the dates around the U.S. and everything was looking very solid for us and Curl Up and Die to go out together for about 3 weeks that summer. The day of our first show in Southern California, I got emails from kids and promoters bailing out in one way or another from 14 cities! I was a mess because after all I had put about 3 months of my own time, money and sweat into this. We had then just come to the conclusion that our label had invested a bunch of money into us and had never seen us live. Goodfellow took the huge risk for us, it was time we needed to pay him back and make the trip up there regardless of what the financial implications were. Yes, I agree most bands would have turned around and said that there is no way in hell they would have ever done that “tour” but the hardcore world is extremely different now where you have an agent within three weeks of becoming a band and then you worry about your record deal before you even practice together, it was just a simpler time. Looking back on that tour, we had some of the best times out on the road hanging out with our friends and playing some amazing shows in the process.

Pastepunk: A neat thing that I’ve noticed in the past two years is that TAKEN has received a continued amount of support from fans on the THRICE message board. What kind of relationship, if any do you have with the THRICE guys?

RAY: It’s funny you say that because anytime I would be feeling down about the band and what we were achieving, I went to the Thrice message board and saw the outpour of kids from different walks of life saying how amazing our most recent show was or how awesome of people we are and it grounds you. It makes you realize that while you may be taking what you are doing for granted by having the opportunity to play in a band and tour nationally, people will always be looking up to you for inspiration, support or anything resembling that. I think most people forget that when their band gets propelled to a different level than what they were exposed to previously. All hardcore has become now is an extension of being involved in the rock scene of the early 80’s. Yes we are singing about different things, yes we still have a vital independent spirit that will not change and most of our ethics remain intact, but if you look at most of the bands around today and do you think they realize the effect they are having on legions of young teenagers? While I think some definitely do, most take it completely for granted. Sorry, got off on a tangent. Basically the Thrice guys have been nothing but amazing to us for quite some time. I initially met them through my friend who coincidentally manages them and while I always thought they were pretty neat dudes, I thought they were horrible musically. Times pass, the shows we play together grow and our relationship strengthens. Once their popularity hit a groundswell, they threw everything they could in our direction in regards to support. If they played a local show, they put us on it. If they did an interview where they could mention local bands that kids should be on the look out for, they dropped our name. It was the simple things that drew us close as a band and as individuals. Thrice is one of those bands that will outlast every single on of their imitators, peers and predecessors all because they realize how they got where they are and keep a balanced perspective.

Pastepunk: When I was first getting into hardcore, California immediately brought to mind well known bands like IGNITE, UNBROKEN, STRIFE, REDEMPTION 87, among many others. There has obviously been a sea change in the past half-decade plus that made bands like THROWDOWN, BLEEDING THROUGH, AVENGED SEVENFOLD, ATREYU, and many more staples for a new generation of hardcore and metal kids. As someone who has had his eyes open wide during this transition, what kind of thoughts pass through your mind? Is there mid-90s revival coming around the corner?

RAY: Watching everything first hand is really an eye opening experience because you see these bands in their incubation period. You see the transitions, changes and eventually the legions of kids that embrace the band. I remember when I could not give away and Atreyu demo, let alone sell one. I remember when the only people singing along to Bleeding Through were their close friends and occasional fan. The Avenged Sevenfold guys were looked upon with scorn and disdain because of their staunch disapproval within the hardcore scene and how they wanted to remain distant from it. When I began my hardcore journey I was getting into bands like you were saying like Strife, Ignite, Chain of Strength and the like. So my roots lie within the punk side of things when I began. I think that is a major problem with many hardcore kids today, no history. I know most of us that begin to get entrenched with all of the bands and information present in hardcore, we also tend to look back. Why does Band A sound like they do? Well because band X,Y and Z directly influenced them of course. That does not go on today at all. The farthest kids look back is about 2 years and then it all starts to sound like crap to them so they jump forward. The doors have blown open so wide for hardcore it is impressive that not every single person involved does not have a band. As far as where I see things going in the future, I would have to say that things will bottom out. I think it will take much longer than I initially anticipated but obviously as in life, hardcore moves in a cyclical motion. Metal-core will fall out, some other form of hardcore will move in and all of these people looking to cash in on a trend will be severely disappointed when that time comes. The reason I hope it comes soon is because it acts as a filter to weed the sincere from the insincere. The kids who truly embrace the spirit of independent music will remain and those who view it as simply a thing to do will find their next hobby.

Pastepunk: Since this interview is just as much about you, as it is about TAKEN, what’s it like working for Abacus Recordings/Century Media? I’ve watched Abacus grow since its inception and noticed how diversified a roster it’s been building, while remaining fully entrenched in heavy music.

RAY: When I first got asked to be involved with Abacus, I was excited and hesitant at the same time. Century Media has had a spotty past and I really did not want to associate myself with something of that nature if it was going to be rehashing most of the same stuff. Fortunately they have trusted me to the fullest extent and pretty much let me run things how I see them. I am flabbergasted at the amount of recognition that we have received thus far. I figured that most people would write off what we were doing for quite some time now calling us a “CM jr.” and a second rate label but I have only heard this a handful of times. I am a firm believer in making sure a label is free from whatever stereotypes and pigeonholes that people enjoy to put on. Granted you can have a general pool that you dip into in regards to the bands as it would be hard to emulate what Jade Tree does, but it makes me uncomfortable when release after release sounds roughly the same. Yes generally metallic hardcore bands will always share similarities but in the grand scheme of things they are markedly different. I like to run the label from the perspective of being honest. Granted yes that sounds like an idealistic view but I really want to stress it’s importance. Most people think that once you begin to deal with contracts it’s all about what the label gets from the band and screwing them in the end. Not true at all. The bands that want to remain at that level can do so without the constraints of a contract but those bands that feel comfortable with that next step can enter it in a safe way as long as the person they are speaking to from the label, presents things in a plausible manner. Of course contracts have things that benefit the label, after all, they are in it to keep putting out records but as long as you understand the general points of what you are getting into there should be no issues. I love being able to see every facet of hardcore from the behind the scenes label perspective to actually being in a band. It lends itself to quite an amazing experience that few are able to have.

Pastepunk: Word has it that you’re in the process of putting together a new band-can you update us the status of that project – if it has a name, a certain type of sound, etc.? (This interview was conducted a few weeks before MIKOTO was officially announced – Ed.)

RAY: Of course, self promotion is the greatest thing we dorks can have! The name of the band is called Mikoto which is a Japanese girls name but the translation is beautiful or truth depending on who you speak to. Once Taken ended I could not sit idly by and not be in a band because after all, it has taught me so much and I had some of the most fun times in my life with that so it only made sense that I continue this progression. I am just playing with some local friends I have know for sometime and it features no other members of Taken which is usually the next question after I say the band name. Sonically I would place us somewhere between what Taken was doing with a more rock vibe and simpler song structures with a Hope Conspiracy tinge to it all. It is moving amazingly quickly as we are going to be recording our demo in the middle of September and planning on playing some shows beginning in November. It is one of those things where I feel like there are so many horrible things happening in the music scene today, I want to give people a fresh perspective to people that may be discovering hardcore for the first time. I know if I was 14 or 15 and began to get into hardcore in similar fashion to the way I initially got exposed, I don’t know if I would have stuck around. The history is not as rich or thick as it used to be. Granted I am not complaining about the current state of hardcore because I feel the people who always moan and groan about how things “used to be” they end up getting jaded very quickly. Regardless I just want to show kids that there does not need to be a schism between the band and the audience. You should never feel like an outcast in the scene we adhere to because after all, this is where we go for acceptance because we are NOT like your average person. In other words, keep your eye out for Mikoto because we plan on taking this further than all of our previous bands.

Pastepunk: As someone has had a tremendous access to music over the years, who do you think produces/records hardcore bands the best? Is there a certain producer or engineer whose sound always impresses you regardless of the caliber of the band that person has worked with?

RAY: Traditionally I am a fan of producers that seem to bring out the best in bands, whether or not it is the best recording quality or what have you, they bring out the bands live fervor or guitar work for example. I really enjoy the way Ed Rose records. He did amazing work for Coalesce, The Get Up Kids, Burn It Down, Limbeck and Small Brown Bike. Even if a band does not appeal to me musically, I will check them out based on them recording with Ed Rose. He just concentrates on what you do the best and hammers it home. Obviously Steve Albini does amazing stuff as every Neurosis record is mind blowing on every level. Matt Bayles has churned out a ton of good stuff most notably These Arms Are Snakes and Botch stuff to name a few. The thing that bothers me about recording today is the fact that ANYONE can get ahold of some pro tools, auto tune the vocals, pitchshift the guitars and manually enter the drum beats to create a pristine demo. How can that possibly be organic? It sounds so stuffed and fake but after all it gets most of these bands signed to a major label deal. Not to say I am opposed to pro tools by any means because after all, that was what the last Taken EP was recorded with but it all depends on how you use it.

Pastepunk: How would you remove 50 blood-thirsty, flesh chompin’ piranhas from a bathtub?

RAY: I would pour gasoline in the tub and light a match. Hopefully that would flush em out and then I would be able to remove their dead bodies. Not very vegetarian but when faced with a situation like this, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Pastepunk: What do you in your downtime? There must be a day or a night when “thee Ray Harkins” is not attending a show, a band practice, or maintaining the blond flat-top, right?

RAY: Well, the blond “flat-top” as you call it is gone. I have traded it for darker pastures and longer length. Still seeing how it feels but after being blonde for about 9 years, I felt I might wanna try out the natural color. As far as downtime is concerned, honestly there is not much of it and if there is, it is usually at 3 or 4 in the morning but when I am able to make some time I usually just spend it doing the normal fun things like going to the cinema, hanging out with my girlfriend, listening to records in my room, going to arcades, playing dodgeball or miniature golf, playing tons of board games or putting songs on my IPOD. I also make sure that I eat some awesome vegetarian food as well like Happy Veggie in Huntington Beach and Native Foods in Costa Mesa (and no, I did not get paid for that).

Pastepunk: As unfortunate it is to mention – a whole lot of people who listen to hardcore music most likely have no idea who TAKEN is or was. Here’s your moment to tell them, who are reading this, why they should check out the band’s history the moment they finish their daily fill of Pastepunk. GO:

RAY: It is funny that you say that because that was always the problem we had. People had HEARD of us but never heard us. I guess we were never cool enough to cross over into that listenable category, haha. It does get me pretty stoked when I travel and hang out with friends in different portions of the U.S. to see Taken cd’s randomly in their collection. I think the reason people should listen to us is because of the distinct difference that I think we achieved when playing music. From what I can tell we hit many kids that were into the metallic influenced hardcore down to kids that were exclusively into indie rock and nothing else. It was always a compliment to hear, “I hate hardcore but I love Taken.” I mean we played shows with every band imaginable from Converge and Botch to Saves The Day and Thrice while still being able to play more independently minded shows with bands like Hot Cross and Fall Silent. I think it is safe to say that we have something for most people that enjoy music rather than one niche. All I know is that I am very thankful for the word of mouth that did spread about the band while we were around, it is still pretty amazing to have people come up to me at shows or send emails to me thanking us for the good times they had or the meaning that we created for them. Overwhelming to say the least.

Pastepunk: Thanks so much Ray, you’re always a pleasure to chat with, and your undying support for the DIY ethic is something to marvel over. Any final comments?

RAY: Jordan, thank YOU for caring enough to give me a platform to speak on. I think what you said is exactly it, remaining DIY. Of course things have been thrown to an entirely different level with hardcore becoming the mainstream music fix but no matter what happens, kids will always been supporting the most important grassroots level of hardcore and punk. Something that also needs to be held with a bit more weight is how sincere a band is about their agenda or message. Many bands are simply going through the motions because after all, that is what you do to have fun, tour and party with your friends. Don’t take what you get for granted. Touring and being in a band is one of the most rewarding experiences that anyone can have but if you do it to just have a band, you will be disappointed at the end of the day. Granted who am I to judge bands sincerity but if you have half a brain, you can tell who is really doing this because they love it or just simply “going to work”. No matter how discouraging things get, they will always get better so don’t give up hope if you absolutely can’t stand what is going on today. The worst thing anyone can do is give up because on that day, the stupid kids win. The main reason why I still call myself straight edge is not because I hate people that drink but because I don’t want the kids that represent straight edge in a more negative light by presenting it in a thug like manner to be the majority. Keep hardcore and punk smart and a threat.